Re: computer-go: Which Maths Is OT?

["Gary Boos" <gboos@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Martin !

Have you read the material ?  Have they written actual code that has
executed ?
OK - I should look first but often I go to such sites and the authors never
point
to their code, they just write about it vaguely ?
        Regards, Gary
--------------
--------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Mueller <mueller@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: computer-go: Which Maths Is OT?


>David Fotland said:
>
>>I've said this before, but here it is again :)  I don't think there is
>>a math to computer go.  I've seen lots of weak programs based on
>>some mathematical concept.  Go is an AI problem, not a math
>>problem.  So it is a big messy problem, and analyzing it rather
>>than coding it will lead nowhere.  Instead of thinking about
>>mathematical functions for go, think about knowledge representation,
>>automatic learning, move selection for fast reading, move selection
>>on the full board, etc.  Think a lot about to quickly and accurately
>>evaluate the status or strength of a group, and how to decide when
>>you have to read to get a good answer.  Think about lookahead
>>algorithms for fast life and death or tactics reading.  Think about
>>how evaluate conenctions or territory or eyes.
>>
>
>I agree that computer Go is foremost an AI problem, but I think the math is
>very handy in some places. Besides being messy at times, Go also has a lot
>of geometrical and logical structure that you can exploit. However, I do
>not mean some magic influence function or such, but discrete math such as
>combinatorial game theory or Benson's work on absolutely alive groups.
>These mathematical structures and analyses can serve as a sound basis for
>knowledge representation, move selection etc. Much of my own work is in
>this grey area between math and AI, so I must contradict strongly if you
>claim that all math is useless :)
>
>>
>>I think the most interesting topic is machine learning for go.  The
>>strong programs all have hand-tuned pattern databases with thousands
>>of patterns.  How can you make such a database automatically?
>>
>>Perhaps Michael Reiss can share his method of buiding patterns for
>>move suggestion from professional games?
>>
>
>I doubt Michael will share his secrets with you :)
>There are some nice Japanese pattern learning programs. Look at the work of
>Takuya Kojima and Atsushi Yoshikawa
>http://www.brl.ntt.co.jp/people/kojima/research/index.html, and at the two
>papers available on
>http://www.etl.go.jp/etl/divisions/~7236/Events/workshop98/, "Move
>Evaluation Tree System" by Hiroto Yoshii and "Memory-Based Approach in
>Go-program Katsunari" by Shinichi Sei and Toshiaki Kawashima. I think in
>the meanwhile they have further improved these programs.
>
> Martin