Re: computer-go: Engineering (was: Most simple Go rules)

[Don Dailey <drd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

   From: Christian Nentwich <c.nentwich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

   >     At the end of a game between humans, there is a "negotiation phase".
   > Each player makes assertions about the status of groups, and there is a
   > procedure for resolving any disagreements.  This is not just a
   > theoretical construct, this is what really happens at the end of a game
   > between two human 9-kyus.
   >     Computers cannot do this negotiation.  Therefore, the only way a
   > computer has for demonstrating that an enemy group is dead, is to
   > capture it.  Under J rules, it cannot do this without incurring a
   > penalty.  Under C rules, there is no penalty for demonstrating, after
   > the last constructive move but before the game end, that an enemy group

   What 9 kyus normally do  is something like this though (?):

   White: that group is dead
   Black: no it's not
   White: try me
   Black: <moves>
   White: <moves>
   Black: ok, it's dead

   This is probably against the rules after passing twice, but happens in
   clubs everywhere. There is no penalty for white here, since its black
   who's trying to live and plays a stone first, white answers.

   You don't show that a group is dead, your opponent has to show that it
   can live, otherwise it's dead. No penalty for White, since he doesn't
   have to show how to capture in the first
   place unless black plays. I see no problem implementing that in a formal
   protocol .

   Christian

I see huge problems defining and implementing this protocol.   This is a perfect
example of what is easy for humans, but tricky for computers.   Kind of like
tying your shoe,  can you write a program to do it?

   Ex:

   White: that group is dead

   Which group?  how do you define group?   Which computer starts the
   negotiation process?   etc. 

Don