computer-go: Spirit of the game

["Grajdeanu, Adrian" <adrian.grajdeanu@xxxxxxx>]

> From: Don Dailey [mailto:drd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> TT scoring does   indeed capture the  spirit  of  the game.
>>    From: "Grajdeanu, Adrian" <adrian.grajdeanu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>    TT scoring does not capture the sprit of the game. 


We're arguing over what is the 'spirit of the game'.
I see the 'spirit of the game' as: control most territory using the least
number of stones.
This statement reflects jap scoring. Under chinese scoring the spirit of the
game is: control the most territory. Under TT scoring the spirit of the game
is: eradicate your opponent from the board. Jap scoring 'spirit of the game'
is stronger then the others and thus is the most difficult to implement. A
player that plays best under jap scoring will have no problem playing best
under chinese scoring. Yet the other way around it doesn't hold true because
an extra deffensive move comes for free in chinese scoring, but at a cost
for jap scoring. A player that plays best under jap scoring can play its
best up until the point when it would pass and then switch into 'kill at all
costs' mode and achieve best play under TT scoring. A player that play best
under TT scoring will fall short under jap scoring as it doesn't know the
best time to pass.


In the light of jap 'spirit of the game', here are the problems I see with
TT scoring:
1. require removal (capture) of dead stones.
2. don't penalize for playing inside own territory.

And here are my comments to them:
1. I certainly understand your concerns regarding cheating the nets from
learning the end game. Yet that happends only if a referee stops the game
when it knows the end. In my case I plan on having the nets play as long as
they consider playing to be meaningful. In this case a stubborn net may
challenge the opponent and try to save dead stones. The opponent needs to
learn to kill, or otherwise it looses and eventually doesn't survive. So at
least in theory I am not concerned of not learning the end game. But a net
that is good and 'sees' that a group is dead no matter what, shouldn't try
to kill it as it would mean to play inside territory and thus fall pray to
what I see the second shortcoming of TT scoring.

2. It is generally bad practice to play inside own territory when there is
disputed area to be conquered. And a net need to learn this. TT scoring can
help. But a net also needs to learn that if there is no more disputed area,
it is better to pass then to play inside own territory. TT scoring won't
help here.

Now, I will clarify what I understand jap scoring, chinese scoring and TT
scoring.
TT scoring counts as points the stones on the board, the territory fully
enclosed by own color and prisoners.
Chinese scoring counts as points the stones on the board, the dead opponents
strings, the territory fully enclosed by own color (ignoring dead strings)
and prisoners.
Jap scoring counts as points the dead opponents strings, the territory fully
enclosed by own color (ignoring dead strings) and prioners.

Throughout this message I purposly ignored rules differences as suicidal,
super-ko, or whatever else not clearly specified above.