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Re: computer-go: Re: best computer GO program


Many Faces (ManyFaces on IGS), and Go 4++/GoProfessional (go4pp on IGS) both are ranked
17k*.

Gnugo is 13k* on NNGS, and ratings there are closer to the AGA scale. Gnugo is a few stones
weaker than the other top programs, so perhaps they would be 10 or 11k on NNGS.

The strongest programs are about 4 kyu in Japan, 6 kyu in the USA, and about 8
kyu in Europe. But these estimates only apply to someone who has never
played against computers before. Since programs make many good moves, they appear to
be stronger than they really are. But they often make very strange or worthless moves,
and someone who is familiar with the style of the program can easily give it 5 more
stones than someone who plays it for the first time. I watched Handtalk beat a Japanese
2 kyu in an official exhibition match after a go contest. But she had never played computer
go before, and had a strong professional watching over her shoulder. She was clearly
afraid of the program, and played very conservatively.

Because the program's play is so inconsistent, they can have an unexpected result against
someone 5 stones stronger or weaker than their igs rank. On igs, most of the challenges
come from weaker players, so their igs rating understates their strength a little. I've
seen Many Faces beat a 3k* with 9 stones, and lose to a 20k* with no handicap. Once I tried
starting Many Faces at 12k, and it earned a 12k* rank, but then slowly drifted back down
to 17k*.

You can make your own conclusion by playing ManyFaces or go4pp on IGS.

David Fotland

At 05:03 AM 3/14/2002 +0100, Stefan Mertin wrote:
Manuel Fernando Cabido Peres Lopes wrote:
>       Stefan Mertin
>
>       In computer Go tournments I always see the results but I can get
> no clue about the best program's rank? What rank would they be able to get
> in IGS?
>
>       Thank you
>
>       Manuel Lopes

I didnīt play go on IGS or any other server yet -
so you should ask the programmers:
most of them have some experience with their program on a Go-server...

I am 8 kyu myself (with 5 wins of 10 in Dublin 2001) and I think,
the best programs are equal or a little bit stronger than me,
this would mean 7 to 8 kyu for GoeMate2001 and Go4++beta72
and I would estimate 8 to 9 kyu for ManyFaces10.2 and HandTalk (, FunGo ?)
and perhaps 9 to 10 kyu for GoProfessional3, GoAhead4.2 and Wulu2.38 ...

B U T   ...

to be very precise, we should first agree that computer programs
yet don`t play go !
They are making go-moves. This is not the same.
So you canīt really give them a go playing rank,
which is meant for the understanding of a whole game.
You just can compare the quality of their moves.
The problem is now, that the moves of nearly all go programs
vary very much from about a dan-players strength to 20-30 kyu !!

Stefan Mertin


(I would think to put this dialogue on the list,  if it would be ok for you ?)

> Thanks for the answer and of course you can publish the question
> and answer. This fact is important for me because I'm going to teach Go to
> a few university professors and it's a way to know the state-of-the-art.

David Fotland