Re: Sharing Secrets (was: [computer-go] Computer Go hardware)

[Don Dailey <drd@xxxxxxx>]

Frank,

I very much appreciate your  post(s) that started this.  Even though I
can't speak for everyone else, I  don't get the idea anyone else feels
differently.

What has happened  is that some have disagreed  with certain ideas you
presented and perhaps not in the most gracious way.

If I was one of those,  I apologize. 

It may have  appeared that I completely dismissed  your idea.  I admit
it sounded that way, but in fact  I have kept one ear opened in case I
could learn something new.

Your invitation  to share ideas is  the whole point of  this group, so
I'm not sure why it was shot down so brutally.  However, sharing ideas
"fairly"  is  a  dicey   proposition  in  our  western  culture  which
encourages the patenting of ideas so that other cannot use them unless
they  pay you  money. 

I  can  see  how asking  for  an  interchance  of EXCELLENT  ideas  or
"secrets" is  inviting trouble, so I  don't know why this  took you by
surprise.  As soon as you made  your post about this, my first thought
was, "oh oh,  he's gonna get hurt now!"

- Don





> > You seem  to be claiming that  with truly random  numbers zobrist keys
> > are poorly distributed.  I don't believe this.
>
> No.
> 
> With perfect random keys, the distribution is very, very, very good.
> Extremely very good.
> 
> BUT the distribution with optimum Hamming distance is much better.
> Orders of magnitude better, thousands of times better.








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   From: "Frank de Groot" <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
   Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:04:17 +0200
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   ----- Original Message ----- 
   From: "Antoine de Maricourt" <antoine.de-maricourt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

   > Well, here they are (no specific order):
   > #1 : forget alpha-beta
   > #2 : forget move pruning
   > #3 : forget hash-keys
   > #4 : forget pattern matching (I mean, based on visual shape recognition)
   > #5 : adopt a more mathematical point of view
   > #6 : ... :-)


   Where is the very strong Go program based on these tricks of the trade?

   Another comment: When people say this is a "kindergarten" thread, why are so 
   many people suddenly analizing collision probabilities? Why have some people 
   not even *heard* of Hamming distance, let alone that maximizing it is in 
   fact counterproductive (by itself although counter-intuitive).

   And.. I know that there were a lot of postings, but the people who were most 
   vociferously in alledging that I failed to voice my idea and "secret", have 
   spent the least time actually reading the postings, otherwise they would 
   notice that indeed I almost immediately fully disclosed my ideas.

   You can now only attack the ideas themselves, which you have just - in a 
   most infantile manner - done without giving any arguments for a rather 
   hilarious list, neither a reasonable Go program to back it up.

   Always try to control your ego or things go wrong.

   Mark Boon experienced this when he published his library.
   He made 500,000+ USD with his efforts and the only/few reactions he got for 
   a long time was: "your shit sucks". (I paraphrase..)

   Nevertheless, years later some guy in Denmark uses his lib to help produce 
   the most exciting thing in the last decade in computer Go (MatLab).

   Funnily enough, Mark Boon makes himself guilty of exactly the same behaviour 
   as he accuses others of. I think I do not want to further participate in 
   this group when there is so much agression and irrationalityas a response to 
   trying to get an interesting discussion going and disclosing one of my most 
   important discoveries, something other commercial Go programmers have wisely 
   refrained from.

   Interestingly, the other commercial Go programmers are either silent (Reiss, 
   Kierulf) or at least mildly derogative (Boon, Fotland). The n00bies simply 
   have never heard of Hamming distance and say I'm crazy just for using it. 
   Dyer, who is in a category of his own, also feels threatened. I can do 
   without such negativity.

   I have just one more advice:
   Your ego is the only thing that stands in the way of your success. 

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