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Re: [computer-go] Oh no...possible language superiority storm ahead...
For 3d games, forget it.
JAVA is out
C# is out.
Even C and C# are already slow.
our problem with 3d engine is already that the other big games use assembly
there. we use open gl by the way. not directx, though open gl casts onto
directx.
java also supports open gl.
however in a few years time everything is directx, does java support that too?
directx has won because microsoft has won a very nasty courtcase. the GDI
is a property of microsoft obviously. that weirdly also means others are
not allowed to release software that casts onto the gdi. So legally open gl
2.0 cannot get released for windows.
Only for *nix.
That's very bad for me. I cannot sell much to Sun users regrettably.
So soon everyone must go to directx. Currently the advantage of opengl is
that there is less crashes. it's rockstable when compared to directx software.
the limitation of the graphics is not only the slow VGA cards that are in
laptops, but also the programming language.
JAVA nor C# can be used for that.
in itself very sad, C# has great functionality to connect all that.
I'm sure JAVA will get more popular. Just like C and C++ also have
conquered their place.
However to program a complex thing, c++ is simply EXCELLENT.
it is object oriented, just like JAVA.
Where do we need JAVA for in that respect, other than that Sun supports it
bigtime?
Sun is a great platform of course and will only get bigger and better (IMHO).
So that is the reason JAVA will go do better. Not any other.
At 18:01 8-11-2004 -0600, Houman Ghahremanlou wrote:
>I had read couple of articles that Sun was planning new hardware for
>gamers that took advantage of Java for 3d Gamers and there were some
>discussions at some games discussion websites that big development
>houses planned to port several of their games to Java just to test
>the grounds.
>
>for Java vs C# I love this site: http://www.javacamp.org/javavscsharp/
>
>When I started to code for a living, I was told that I NEED to learn
>C++, so I spent 2 years learning it while I had done mostly C in the
>past. What I can say is that C++ can be slower than C if written
>wrongly, for sure it seems to me that it is easier to debug by means of
>different classes, but I did not notice any speed increase, other than
>you have helluva more code to write something simple in C.
>
>Java is the way to go, if I had to start all over again, I would write
>everything in Java, I think the old school mentality is to use ASM for
>everything, but you really do not need to anymore, hardware are so
>fast, why would you even bother trying to save an extra clock cycle
>here or there... garbage collection ... Mmmm oh my :)
>
>Just to go back to Games of Go in general, have any of you looked at the
>Gaming scene in Japan, Korea or China ? it seems that in Europe or in
>the US people worry too much about Languages and Theories and forget
>practical issues about programming. I recently purchased Ginsei Igo 5
>(i.e KCC Igo) and ran couple of games against many engines (except Many
>Faces which I don't own), and it litterally beat all of them. It seems
>that the east asian market is finally catching up and surpassing the
>European/US counter part ...
>
>Also Vincent: if you ever come in the US, try to lose that attitude of
>this is better than this, you won't get too far :) J2EE is #1 currently in
>the US, these days you can't find a job if you don't know Java...
>
>Anyways, I'll drop out and will go back into listenning / reading mode
>of these "nice" discussions ;)
>
>Houman
>
>
>On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 00:47:23 +0100, Vincent Diepeveen <diep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I have led several java projects. The comparisions in speed were done 2
>> weeks ago. Good programmers never say JAVA is fast. They know much better.
>>
>> Note that many chess engines are coded in assembly. I remember some go
>> programs life & death searches are too.
>>
>>
>>
>> At 14:28 8-11-2004 -0800, Jim O'Flaherty, Jr. wrote:
>> >Vincent,
>> >
>> >Please refer to earlier messages talking about languages and speed.
>> Apparently your cached data
>> >about Java is quite stale. Time to do a refresh. ;^)
>> >
>> >No point in starting a language *war* thingy. You use what you use. He
>> uses what he uses.
>> >Criticizing someone else's choice of language seems quite trite.
>> >
>> >
>> >Jim
>> >
>> >
>> >PS. JDK/JRE 1.4 or later Java code is now getting numeric performance on
>> par with or exceeding
>> >almost all C/C++ compilers excepting Intel's.
>> >
>> >
>> >--- Vincent Diepeveen <diep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wait a minute, you guys want to use the 3 times slower JAVA platform for
>> >> game programming?
>> >>
>> >> You are not serious are you?
>> >>
>> >> JAVA is great for connectivity and a quick programming of internet tools
>> >> and for server tools and interfaces.
>> >>
>> >> But for the pure speed, i must refer this inferior compiler
technology to
>> >> the outdated desk.
>> >>
>> >> A complex program will be a factor 3 slower with it at least.
>> >>
>> >> In fact small 30 line programs already are to my amazement not seldom
up to
>> >> a factor 3 slower.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At 19:49 8-11-2004 -0200, Mark Boon wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> [mailto:computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Stuart A
Yeates
>> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 18:58
>> >> >> To: computer-go
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [computer-go] Pattern Matcher
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark Boon wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I would be really interested if it would give a significant
speedup.
>> >> >> > In Java it's probably even more practical than in C, as it has the
>> >> >> > built-in capability of doing run-time compilation of the code and
>> >> >> > load the compiled class run-time to replace the existing one.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is not true in the general case.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> While it is true that the Java standard libraries have a method for
>> >> >> calling the compiler, an implementation is not required to have a
>> >> >> compiler to be called. This is the key difference between Sun's JRE
>> >> >> (Java Runtime Envirnoment) which doesn't have a compiler and Sun's
JDK
>> >> >> (Java Development Kit) which does.
>> >> >
>> >> >That could be. I did something like this some years ago, although it
>> was for
>> >> >a more mundane application for a bank. You don't necessarily need
the JDK,
>> >> >just the 'tools' library.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Indeed, with the recent release of GNU's GCJ (Gnu Compiler for Java),
>> >> >> it's going to be increasingly frequent for the Java code to
actually be
>> >> >> running as a pre-compiled binary executable.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> cheers
>> >> >> stuart
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> computer-go mailing list
>> >> >> computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
>> >> >>
>> >> >
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>> >> >
>> >> >
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>> >>
>> >
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