Re: [computer-go] Pattern matching - example play

["Frank de Groot" <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

From: "Don Dailey" <drd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Pattern matching - example play


> However Frank,  it seems to  me that it  should be better  to directly
> apply  actual  knowledge as  opposed  to  trying  to obtain  knowledge
> indirectly.

I have always said that this is exactly what I propose.
I said, harvesting knowledge from games, and harvesting knowledge from Go
teaching books.

For ex. There are wonderfully detailed descriptions of algorithms on how to
statically detect whether something is alive or dead in case of a
Semeai-kind of thing when B moves vs. when W moves (the details escaped me
but I remembered that it was very cool and that I wanted to implement it
straight from the book).

There are books written that teach how to count liberties and there are
"inner eyes" and "outer eyes" (or whatever, my point is that detailed
algorithms have been explained in Go teaching books).

So, why do I need to be a strong Go player?

I *know* that I need to do reading. The problem is managing the tree. And
that is done with Go knowledge.
But that can be learned form Go software publications, Go teaching
publications, statical analysis, genetic evaluation of self-play, whatever.

Why do I need to be a strong player myself?
I really don't see it.
If I would, I would start to learn to play Go.
I like the game but I simply see no use for it, to learn to play the game.
Even more perverse, I don't see any use for a pro player, none whatsoever.

Like Vincent said they talk in a way thaat is utterly useless to make a Go
program.
"It would be nice if you could somehow <insert vaguest meta-philosophical
ungraspable concept here>".


> this, there are  many more.  Most of the  knowledge expressed in games
> is buried  far beneath  the surface, extracting  the real  reasons for
> moves is  extremely non-trivial  and is really  what you would  want a
> program to understand.


I still don't see it.
There are only limited concepts.

Influence, Territory, connectivity, Ajji, Moyo, Running room, eye space,
Sente, Ko's, etc. etc.
It's not that there are an infinite number of concepts.
All these concepts are explained in books and can be programmed to be
extracted from game records.


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