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Re: [computer-go] how to have a computer go tournament? (summary)
At 05:49 PM 1/25/05, you wrote:
I have a few more thoughts, embedded below:
On 25, Jan 2005, at 3:55 AM, Ray Tayek wrote:
i have put together an outline ...
0. 2005 cotsen open will be held on the weekend of April 30th.
Oh, much earlier this year ... I hope I'm ready!
1. world class $10k? (get most? of the top programs 15?-25?)
This is lots more "motivation" than I need. But I already live in California.
yes, but some pointed out that the prized in aisa vary from 6k to 20k. so i
thought i'd throw that in and see if he salues :).
2. upper middle ground $6k (get some 8?-15?)
3. lower middle ground $3k (get some 5?-10?)
I would like to propose another option that I see as a middle ground: Have
the computer competition before the human competition and let the top 2
programs enter the human competition. Hopefully human competitors will not
object as loudly if the programs have already been culled down to just the
best.
interesting idea, we could start that way before. but ...
1. lots of rules to hassle, as the aga has flavours of computer
involvement.
2. involves aga, ing, the td, sensei, etc.
4. previous experience indicates that the players will revolt.
it's the aga and ing rules that i am worried about. don't know how far we
can bend them. need to check with larry gross on that.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Another thing that can be done it to have a
check-box on the entry form to find out those who would refuse to play
against a computer and try to adjust accordingly. I do not know if you
have an elimination tourney planned, but if a program makes the cut then
it should not get a forced loss because a person refused to play it.
assuming we get by the rules and the td, the check box may work out fine.
i would find that ok personally if i was a player and had some certainty
that the programs were rated more or less corectly (within 1 stone). and as
you say below they are around 8k on igs, maybe they should be entered
around 6k as it seems that igs is still about 2? stones tougher than
american ranks.
also, if we can get by the rules and the players, why not let any or all of
the programs play? maybe letting the player pick the program though might
not be good as the player may have found trick moves that screw it up.
5. *might* work if you provided some $ incentive?
6. probably not worth the trouble now.
I would hope that the people would be more open minded.
well, if we can get buy the rules. the players in the low kyu categories
may be more amenable to this. i can post to the goinla list and get some
feedback later.
4. how often will this occur and in what band? (what are mf,
smart go's, and gnugo's approximate igs/nngs ratings? 5k? 10k?)
ratings near 8 seem common.
great! that's a good spot. and we can give handicaps to weaker players if
it looks like this (missing oppoent) will not happen very enough as we
would like.
5. we have some real beginners, any reason not to let the
programs play absolute beginners (20kyu-30kyu)? (maybe they could play
on 13x13 boards? aga rules on this?).
I have no objection other than wanting to be able to enter the human
competition if in the top 2.
we could let then all enter as far as that goes.
6. game will be played on a real board, so requires an operator
and pc each time.
I agree that for any game that is part of a competition this is the
easiest. We would have to determine what the rule is about mis-transfered
moves (should an honest mistake be a forced resign or should take-backs be
allowed ... one ... or a small number?).
we can probably minimize that, both the player and the operator should be
able to see both the board and the screen. players in the 8-kyu range are
more easy going about things. and sensei decides all disputes, and we can
control how often this occurs if it looks to be a problem.
Even if we do get our pc referee ready by this early date, I think play
through it should only be on a demonstration basis, just a way to keep
some programs playing against each other without so much human intervention.
that would be fine.
4. demo of computer go playing software
1. two pc's, cables, and a projector
2. minor setup and maintenance
3. security or humping required for equipment
I probably would have the worst problem on this item, and I am willing to
drag my stuff around as needed.
we will find a locked room or get some help..
5. offers of assistance (onsite)
1. probable (due to timing) from "Bob Myers" <rtm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> of
http://intelligentgo.org/
2. probable (due to timing) "David Fotland"
<fotland@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> http://smart-games.com/ (many faces)
3. probable (due to timing) David G Doshay <ddoshay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
(game referee program
Again, I also have to say maybe to the pc referee part too, particularly
at this early date.
i will stick a maybe in there.
and *maybe* some way to play against his cluster?)
http://currents.ucsc.edu/04-05/07-26/cluster.html
I will not be able to bring the cluster mentioned in that article, but
if there is an internet connection we could play it remotely for those
who trust me to be telling the truth about what is on the other end of
the wire. I am working on getting a traveling cluster together to bring
to LA, and it would be less powerful than the one in the machine room at UCSC.
the connection may be a just a dialup. but there is some kind since sensei
plays a demo game with another pro on igs.
But the main point in my offer was the possibility of assisting as a
sponsor more than as an organizer, as long as nobody fears a conflict of
interest if I am both a sponsor and a competitor.
no problem as far as i am concerned.
Cheers,
David
thanks
---
ray tayek <http://tayek.com/>, co-chair <http://www.ocjug.org/>, actively
seeking telecommuting work.
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