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RE: [computer-go] Computer Go Server
MFOG's rank is not very stable on IGS. I think the IGS ratings above
10 kyu are not very accurate so there is a lot of churn. I had MFGO on
IGS for a couple of weeks in January for testing, and it's rating varied
from 15k*
to 20k*, and it won a 9 stone game against a 2k*. Go++ is currently 20k*.
Computer ratings on IGS are low for a couple of reasons. Most people
challenge up
a rank, so if the programs don't make challenges, almost all games are with
weaker
opponents, which makes it easier for the rating to drop than to gain. Some
opponents
adjourn lost games, which biases the results.
If I start MFGO at 12k on IGS, it wins just under half its games, becomes
13k, wins
just under half again, etc :(
The only problem you might have on NNGS is setting up matches, since
currently one
program has to initiate them. You would like the server to start the match,
and invite
both players.
David
> -----Original Message-----
> From: computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ben
> Shoemaker
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:17 AM
> To: computer-go
> Subject: [computer-go] Computer Go Server
>
>
> First, let me say that I do not currently have a working go
> program. I only have a long-term interest in computer go
> that will eventually lead to a working program. (I hope!)
>
> Second, I agree that debating minute details instead of
> setting up and using something quick and simple is a waste of
> time. However, the better informed the quick and simple
> solution the more valuable it is to everyone.
>
> Here is my sense of where to start:
>
> 1. Setup an NNGS server. (known protocol, gtp support [gnugoclient],
> bonus: MFOG support!) Already we would have a dedicated
> server for computer go programs to play each other at
> anytime, from anywhere. A computer-go specific server could
> change and adjust to the needs of the computer-go community
> without worrying about support for other users.
>
> 2. Automate the game playing as much as possible. It seems
> that NNGS has a few commands which may provide at least a
> partial solution.
>
> The match command: match [opponent] [color] [board size]
> [time] [byo-omi] Opponent can then "accept" or "decline".
>
> If there is a mechanism for listing that you are open for a
> match, along with your preferred game settings, then each
> program could repeatedly: view the list, request a match, and
> play a game. If there are no available opponents, the
> program would list that they were open for a match and sit
> idle until a suitable opponent appeared.
>
> I also see reference to ladder9 (9x9) and ladder19 (19x19)
> tournaments. These could be interesting. Allowing games
> between adjacent online participants would insure continuous play.
>
> Non ladder based tournaments with random pairings would be
> interesting also. Again, playing currently online opponents
> seems ideal.
>
> Documentation of NNGS commands: http://nngs.cosmic.org/help.html
>
> 3. Rankings. As long as the ranking system can handle the
> complete range of rankings from best to the worst, it doesn't
> matter what numbers are used. The rankings will be different
> from human rankings. Two possible
> baselines:
> MFOG has a stable ranking on IGS, it could be used for a
> start. A random player should maintain a stable ranking
> indefinitely. It could be used as the bottom end of the
> ranking scale.
>
> 4. Statistics. If possible, all games should be kept for
> review on the server. Alternatively, archiving all games to
> a website. If not all games, then at least the last few
> months. Or at least x games from any given opponent pairing.
>
> 5. Humans. Humans should have accounts for logging in,
> viewing games, chatting, and possibly sending commands to
> programs they control. I don't think humans should play
> games on this server (v human or v program).
>
> If someone (Dave Dyer?) sets up an NNGS server, I could
> possibly help code and necessary desired improvements.
>
> I can't wait to see this server up and running!
>
> Ben Shoemaker
> "Computer Go Server: All Computer Go--All The Time!"
>
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