Re: [computer-go] KGS game-end protocol

[Andrés Domínguez <andresdju@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 7/27/05, steve uurtamo <apoxonpoo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > What are you talking about? Nobody has suggested to
> > stop the play
> > before both programs agree that the game is over. If
> > one program
> > passes while there are still points to gain it's
> > their loss. If both
> > programs pass prematurely it's still their problem.
>
>[...]
> 
> leaving it up to a human to evaluate endgame
> situations gives an unseen advantage to the
> computer go programs out there -- all they have
> to do is generate board situations that are
> advantageous, without necessarily being able to
> kill stones that are mostly-dead.  it actually
> handicaps computer go program development if they
> can take advantage of the magic black box of a
> human evaluation function to finish games for
> them.

I think that you should change:

kill stones -> capture stones (or remove, if you like)
mostly-dead -> dead

We are talking about evaluation of _finished_ games,
not about playing the endgame. If the game is not
end, then the human (or Gnugo) can't evaluate the
game.

> i think that it's important for go programs to
> be able to prove, by playing moves, that the stones
> that they think are dead cannot be defended.

I agree with you.
  
> [...]
> sure, it's boring to watch, and a board full of 1-point
> eyes isn't going to be as pretty looking as one
> with vast chunks of open space, but it shouldn't
> take more than a fraction of a second or so for
> each such move (and if it *does* take longer than
> that, then the code in question certainly hasn't
> already read out that line of play and can't say
> for certain that the "dead stone" is really dead).

Of course, humans also know if a group is dead even
if have not read out the line. Sometimes I know that
a group is dead, but I need some seconds or minutes
to read the line.

-- 
--
andoresu yori
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