[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: computer-go: Please stop this pointless and blasphemous discussion !!!



I think the concept of God is  pretty universal among cultures.  There
is significant disagreement about who or what God is or if God exists,
but it's the  concept that's   important.   People know  what you  are
talking about in general terms.  If someone used the term "Zeus of all
computers" should  I get  enraged  because they   didn't use  the term
"Yahweh"?   I don't think  we  should  be arbitrarily restricted  from
using terminolgy that is  familar to us when  there is no intention to
offend.   If you  believe this is   proper, then maybe  we should walk
around criticizing anyone not belonging to our own particular culture,
telling them they are offensive.

For instance  I believe  that just  about any atheist  knows what  God
means (in general terms) and wouldn't be offended because someone dare
mention something THEY don't happen to believe in.

I don't believe in magic either.  In a previous post someone mentioned
something about a "magic" function that does this or  that.  I felt no
need to rip off a reply condeming them for using a term they liked and
one that I perfectly well understood.  

That's  not  to say  certain terms   with   very obvious  connotations
shouldn't be avoided.  There are many that would warrant eviction from
the group.  But I don't see what  is so dirty about  using a term that
might happen  to appear in a bible  or religious manuscript somewhere,
it's a part of who some of us are, why should we deny it?

The  posters  in this group  come   from many different  languages and
cultures.  We don't all  talk the same  and we don't  all use the same
terms in  the same way.  Who of  you wishes to start  complaining that
you are offended by this?  It doesn't make  you seem more tolerant, it
really makes you seem intolerant.

On top of that, "God" is about as generic as you can get.  I seriously
doubt you will be able  to tell the religion,  or lack of from anyones
use of the word "GoGod."

I'll take care not  to offend anyone, but  I'm not going to  bend over
backwards   either,  just to use   only  "culturally neutral" language
(which excludes all English by the way.)

I do think there is a small  point, which is  why I agreed with Roland
in  the first  place.  Even though  I  think it's completely  silly to
avoid any word that might be connected to believing in something, I do
see some value in taking some care to avoid  language that could imply
"blashphemy."  I can see how someone might be offended if you claim to
be  able  to  "beat God  with   some  hadicap or  other."   It doesn't
personally  bother  me, but  I  would have  respect for  anyone it did
bother.

Roland, please don't use  the word "good" any more  ok?  This word  is
based  upon the  concept  of  a God  and  you   may have  noticed  the
similarity in spelling.

Don



   Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:41:34 -0300
   From: Roland <goprog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
   X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.45) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091
   X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
   References: <200009250417.AAA05706@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    <39CF1963.5B07@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
   Mime-Version: 1.0
   Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
   Sender: owner-computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
   Precedence: bulk
   Reply-To: computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
   Content-Length: 2691

   Hello Robert,

   Monday, September 25, 2000, 6:22:43 AM, you wrote:

   RJ> "GoGod" and "GoDevil" are specialized and well-defined terms in game
   RJ> theory just like "tree" is such a term. As such these are meant to be 

   Well, I could agree with you if people really used the exact
   term(GoGod and NOT GOD), although I still have an objection which I
   will explain later. The fact is, that some people used the term
   God, which has a strong connotation in normal language.
   Now to my second objection I think the idea to call a perfect player a "GoGod" was
    a poor one, because
   this term was obviously inspired by the concept of God. The inventor of
   the term GoGod seems to be unaware that God is not only omniscient but
   also almighty(this of course will also vary according to the specific
   cultural background as another reader pointed out). As such he
   might not only know the perfect move but
   also interfere in the playing of the opponent(either human or
   machine/computer or even Devil) or change the status of the board by
   making pieces appear, disappear at random locations etc...The creator
   of the term GoGod obviously wanted only the quality of
   omniscient.

   RJ> For GoDevil I have not seen other terms except different spellings.
   RJ> For GoGod other terms are used as well:
   RJ> - God
   this term is obviously ambiguous and seems to be the source of our
   misunderstandings.

   RJ> - perfect player
   RJ> - omniscient player

   RJ> - guru
   this term is also ambiguous and from religious background?

   RJ> Definitions for GoGod and GoDevil have been given relying on the 
   RJ> concept of automatons.

   Well this certainly is true, but the question is: have those terms
   been chosen wisely? I think not. I mean, of course you can use any
   word to define whatever you want, but it should somehow make sense and
   preferably not be chosen such as to probably offend people from
   certain cultural backgrounds. For orthodox Jews(which is not my case)
   I think even writing down the word God is already a sin, and as for
   the Christians there is a bible verse which says:
   Deuteronomy 5:11 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God,
   for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."

   Otherwise we could also define the term "Yellow pancake" as synonym to
   perfect player, or how about "Little Green Man with pink dots" or
   "BeeBop", "Nasty bitch", "WukWuk", "Upraktiltum"...

   PS: I remember once in the university I had a teacher who wanted to
   show us that a God-like being could count all natural numbers. But he
   was careful and told us he didn't want to offend any religious feelings so
   he decided to use the term Zeus.

   --
   Best regards,
    Roland                            mailto:goprog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx