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Re: computer-go: Please stop this pointless and blasphemous discussion !!!
I think the concept of God is pretty universal among cultures. There
is significant disagreement about who or what God is or if God exists,
but it's the concept that's important. People know what you are
talking about in general terms. If someone used the term "Zeus of all
computers" should I get enraged because they didn't use the term
"Yahweh"? I don't think we should be arbitrarily restricted from
using terminolgy that is familar to us when there is no intention to
offend. If you believe this is proper, then maybe we should walk
around criticizing anyone not belonging to our own particular culture,
telling them they are offensive.
For instance I believe that just about any atheist knows what God
means (in general terms) and wouldn't be offended because someone dare
mention something THEY don't happen to believe in.
I don't believe in magic either. In a previous post someone mentioned
something about a "magic" function that does this or that. I felt no
need to rip off a reply condeming them for using a term they liked and
one that I perfectly well understood.
That's not to say certain terms with very obvious connotations
shouldn't be avoided. There are many that would warrant eviction from
the group. But I don't see what is so dirty about using a term that
might happen to appear in a bible or religious manuscript somewhere,
it's a part of who some of us are, why should we deny it?
The posters in this group come from many different languages and
cultures. We don't all talk the same and we don't all use the same
terms in the same way. Who of you wishes to start complaining that
you are offended by this? It doesn't make you seem more tolerant, it
really makes you seem intolerant.
On top of that, "God" is about as generic as you can get. I seriously
doubt you will be able to tell the religion, or lack of from anyones
use of the word "GoGod."
I'll take care not to offend anyone, but I'm not going to bend over
backwards either, just to use only "culturally neutral" language
(which excludes all English by the way.)
I do think there is a small point, which is why I agreed with Roland
in the first place. Even though I think it's completely silly to
avoid any word that might be connected to believing in something, I do
see some value in taking some care to avoid language that could imply
"blashphemy." I can see how someone might be offended if you claim to
be able to "beat God with some hadicap or other." It doesn't
personally bother me, but I would have respect for anyone it did
bother.
Roland, please don't use the word "good" any more ok? This word is
based upon the concept of a God and you may have noticed the
similarity in spelling.
Don
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:41:34 -0300
From: Roland <goprog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Hello Robert,
Monday, September 25, 2000, 6:22:43 AM, you wrote:
RJ> "GoGod" and "GoDevil" are specialized and well-defined terms in game
RJ> theory just like "tree" is such a term. As such these are meant to be
Well, I could agree with you if people really used the exact
term(GoGod and NOT GOD), although I still have an objection which I
will explain later. The fact is, that some people used the term
God, which has a strong connotation in normal language.
Now to my second objection I think the idea to call a perfect player a "GoGod" was
a poor one, because
this term was obviously inspired by the concept of God. The inventor of
the term GoGod seems to be unaware that God is not only omniscient but
also almighty(this of course will also vary according to the specific
cultural background as another reader pointed out). As such he
might not only know the perfect move but
also interfere in the playing of the opponent(either human or
machine/computer or even Devil) or change the status of the board by
making pieces appear, disappear at random locations etc...The creator
of the term GoGod obviously wanted only the quality of
omniscient.
RJ> For GoDevil I have not seen other terms except different spellings.
RJ> For GoGod other terms are used as well:
RJ> - God
this term is obviously ambiguous and seems to be the source of our
misunderstandings.
RJ> - perfect player
RJ> - omniscient player
RJ> - guru
this term is also ambiguous and from religious background?
RJ> Definitions for GoGod and GoDevil have been given relying on the
RJ> concept of automatons.
Well this certainly is true, but the question is: have those terms
been chosen wisely? I think not. I mean, of course you can use any
word to define whatever you want, but it should somehow make sense and
preferably not be chosen such as to probably offend people from
certain cultural backgrounds. For orthodox Jews(which is not my case)
I think even writing down the word God is already a sin, and as for
the Christians there is a bible verse which says:
Deuteronomy 5:11 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God,
for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."
Otherwise we could also define the term "Yellow pancake" as synonym to
perfect player, or how about "Little Green Man with pink dots" or
"BeeBop", "Nasty bitch", "WukWuk", "Upraktiltum"...
PS: I remember once in the university I had a teacher who wanted to
show us that a God-like being could count all natural numbers. But he
was careful and told us he didn't want to offend any religious feelings so
he decided to use the term Zeus.
--
Best regards,
Roland mailto:goprog@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx