RE: [computer-go] citation

["Jim O'Flaherty, Jr." <jim_oflaherty_jr@xxxxxxxxx>]

All,

I am curious why this sequence in Go is referred to as a "ladder" at all.  When I am playing go,
and such a sequence is played out, it looks much more like a "stair" to me.  So why isn't such a
sequence call a "stair"?  All the ladders I have observed don't look very much like a stair at
all, at least to me.

What does anyone know the origination of the use of the word "ladder" describing this pattern in
Go?  Is it a translation "error" from way back when Go first made it to an English speaking
country and the language gap combined with an English anomoly caused an interesting twist to use
the term "ladder" as opposed to "stair"?  If so, when did it occur, why did it persist and does
anyone refer to it by any other name than "ladder" in English speaking countries?


Thank you for any etymological elaborations you can offer on this.

Jim O'Flaherty, Jr.


--- Mark Boon <tesuji@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> In a sense both of you are right. John is right that the ladder problem is
> theoretically pspace hard. When programming you can't avoid a formal
> definition of ladders like John's, as a program has little use of a vague
> definition of a 'ladder' as something that results in the shape of a ladder.
> The shape is only the result of some practical examples of the formal
> definition, not the other way around.
> 
> On the other hand, Harry is right that making a program that reads ladders
> is a fairly trivial task. For practical purposes you can limit the ladder
> depth (to say 70 moves, enough to cross the board and then some) and assume
> that anything that exceeds that depth doesn't capture the stones. That way
> you only get the wrong solution in a very, very small percentage of the
> cases.
> 
>     Mark Boon
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Harry W
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:55
> To: drd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; computer-go
> Subject: Re: [computer-go] citation
> 
> 
> 
> > What is your "more specific" definition of a ladder?
> >  It's hard for me
> > to imagine a definition more "specific" than the one
> > John gave.
> >
> 
> Here's a very good explanation on what a ladder is:
> http://senseis.xmp.net/?Ladders
> 
> The whole reason when the term "ladder" is used is
> because the shape looks like a ladder. Since John's
> definition fails to mention this rudimentary fact make
> his definition imprecise.
> 
> In fact his definition is so generalized, that it
> includes situations such as ladders and many more
> other situations that are not ladders. this is why I
> called the difinition imprecise.
> 
> -harry wang
> 
> 
> 
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