Re: [computer-go] Pattern Matcher

["Jim O'Flaherty, Jr." <jim_oflaherty_jr@xxxxxxxxx>]

Frank,

You keep implying you will be dead before you are finished with your program(s).  Are you using
the end of your life as some sort of "way out there" kind of metaphor for time measured in decades
and/or centuries?

Or are you actually suffering from a terminal illness (or some condition where you will pass away
in the next 6mths to 2yrs) and you are actually referring to the next year or two?

As I have been reading your responses, I presumed the former.  I am now not sure.  Hence, my
desire for clarification.  I think it will help me better understand you.


Jim 


--- Frank de Groot <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: "Vincent Diepeveen" <diep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [computer-go] Pattern Matcher
> 
> 
> > Let's summarize: you work on a module that can order moves hopefully
> better
> > as it regurarly picks the correct moves.
> 
> Well.. Perhaps I have to be more clear.
> My pattern module is the result of a Fuseki opening library.
> I generalized it to patterns.
> 
> To my surprise the module was able to predic on average 15% of all pro moves
> in unseen games.
> As I do not play Go, I started to analyze what is happening.
> It turned out that the module had become an expert at Joseki and following
> up on Joseki.
> In the extreme, it knew rare Joseki, it suggested the "correct" moves in
> huge patterns that only occured a dozen times in half a million games etc.
> 
> It also knows "Tesuji" and "Good shape".
> 
> I do not know exactly what this is good for, in a Go program.
> I know it is a very good Fuseki & Joseki module, as it predicts 50% of pro
> moves during those stages on average.
> 
> I know from chess that opening books are considered important.
> I discovered that in Go this leads to very high pro-prediction during the
> first 100 moves.
> This lead me to believe that this pattern system is very relevant, as the
> opening stage in Go is the stage where the most pointns are secured and
> "reading" is just about impossible. When there are 12 stones on the board,
> statistical analysis results are more useful than search.
> 
> My pattern system will first and foremost be used to secure a very good
> first 50 moves.
> Making sure that the strategic part of the opening is very good.
> 
> For the rest.. No idea yet.
> The smallest pattern matcher is very fast, and it is possible that I put the
> most important patterns in the (future) cache.
> In that case it may be interesting to use in search, but I am sceptical.
> 
> I intend to harvest potential eye shapes and potential connectivity patterns
> and use that in search instead.
> 
> > If i want to do it say 100000 times a second at an opteron 2.0Ghz, can i
> do
> > it with your software?
> 
> The big wins in a Go game are achieved at the opening stage.
> Go is totally different from chess in that in Go, you slowly surround
> territory.
> My pattern system knows how to do that in the opening.
> 
> The opening is based on simple Fuseki/Joseki books in current Go programs,
> and heuristics.
> 
> When my tactics module is as strong as the tactics module of the
> competition, my pattern module will wipe the floor with them because it will
> play a hell of a better Joseki and good shape. It will kick the crap out of
> any manually entered pattern system. But of course that is a religious
> opinion, just as yours are :)
> 
> I want to stress that you might know much about computer chess, but you have
> never demonstrated to know the first thing about computer Go :)
> 
> 
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