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Re: [computer-go] Pattern Matcher
I have seen benchmarks where some idiots do just memory allocations and
deallocations where java is faster than C. Which is published on the
website of Sun.
However you can also write the software without stupid memory allocations
and deallocations, then the C code is 3 times faster than the java code.
Saying it's "just 30% slower" is not exactly true. It's 3 times slower.
Especially if you realize what the goal of JAVA is, that is an acceptible
speed difference. JAVA is not there for speed programming.
JAVA programmers in general are worse paid than C/C++ or even Fortran/COBOL
programmers.
That has a few reasons. One of them is that those programmers usually do
not write for speed, if they know how to program anyway.
JAVA also is not a good language to write a graphical interface for a
modern game program in.
It's just an object oriented programming language just like C++, that's all.
The difference with c++ is that it easily combines with C and that the
compilers for it are far better and will remain better.
That still doesn't take away that for stable Sun servers, JAVA is a great
solution to connect them over the internet.
high level or low level discussions is IMHO a bad idea.
JAVA definitely is a high level language which doesn't allow compilers to
optimize code ideally. The work for compilers is just too big to make
decent code.
However JAVA is not complete. For a high level language it doesn't allow
easy integration with C source code (AFAIK) and it is running behind on
making good looking graphical applications for mass market.
they don't want only a pulldown window with choices.
TCL/TK already could do that years ago.
Yet the good news for JAVA is that C# isn't very mature either and also 3
times slower.
At 17:47 8-11-2004 -0500, Don Dailey wrote:
>
>Vincent,
>
>John Tromp wrote a game benchmark that made a believer out of me.
>Java appears to be only 30% slower or even better. There are probably
>applications where it's much slower, but it doesn't seem to be board
>games.
>
>I still won't use Java because it IS slower and in my opinion is still
>a low level language (I don't mind the slowdown if I get a much higher
>level language.) GC is cool, but I always either completely avoid
>malloc or use it in very controlled ways.
>
>GNU has a great native code compiler.
>
>- Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 23:02:08 +0100
> From: Vincent Diepeveen <diep@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner
> Reply-To: computer-go <computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sender: computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42
>
> Wait a minute, you guys want to use the 3 times slower JAVA platform for
> game programming?
>
> You are not serious are you?
>
> JAVA is great for connectivity and a quick programming of internet tools
> and for server tools and interfaces.
>
> But for the pure speed, i must refer this inferior compiler technology to
> the outdated desk.
>
> A complex program will be a factor 3 slower with it at least.
>
> In fact small 30 line programs already are to my amazement not seldom
up to
> a factor 3 slower.
>
>
>
> At 19:49 8-11-2004 -0200, Mark Boon wrote:
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Stuart A
Yeates
> >> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 18:58
> >> To: computer-go
> >> Subject: Re: [computer-go] Pattern Matcher
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark Boon wrote:
> >>
> >> > I would be really interested if it would give a significant speedup.
> >> > In Java it's probably even more practical than in C, as it has the
> >> > built-in capability of doing run-time compilation of the code and
> >> > load the compiled class run-time to replace the existing one.
> >>
> >> This is not true in the general case.
> >>
> >> While it is true that the Java standard libraries have a method for
> >> calling the compiler, an implementation is not required to have a
> >> compiler to be called. This is the key difference between Sun's JRE
> >> (Java Runtime Envirnoment) which doesn't have a compiler and Sun's JDK
> >> (Java Development Kit) which does.
> >
> >That could be. I did something like this some years ago, although it
was for
> >a more mundane application for a bank. You don't necessarily need the
JDK,
> >just the 'tools' library.
> >
> >>
> >> Indeed, with the recent release of GNU's GCJ (Gnu Compiler for Java),
> >> it's going to be increasingly frequent for the Java code to actually be
> >> running as a pre-compiled binary executable.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> stuart
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> computer-go mailing list
> >> computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
> >>
> >
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> >
> >
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