RE: [computer-go] Pattern matching - example play

["Thore Graepel" <thoreg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mark,

I think your analysis is quite interesting but somewhat lacks the
"objective" value of Frank's statistics in terms of professional move
prediction. I think it would be very interesting to see how well Go++
predicts professional moves when tested on a (random) set of
professional games. Maybe Frank and you could run parallel experiments
on the same set of professional games?
Of course, you may argue that predicting the exact pro move may not be
of great interest in itself but that one should consider all the moves
of equivalent value as well. However, since from game records we can
only obtain one professional move per position, counting the fraction of
correctly predicted pro moves seems the best we can do in terms of
statistical analysis based on existing professional games.

Thore Graepel 

> Before I continue, let me make a few statements. I've taken myself as
a
> judge of the quality of the moves. I'm not a pro of course. But I
consider
> my level close enough to that of a pro to make very little difference
for
> this discussion. Although I played through the whole game, I paid
> particularly close attention to the first 100 moves. The choice of
this
> number was completely arbitrary. I made a simple tally of each side,
how
> many *good* moves they played, and how many *bad* moves. A move was
> considered good if I would have played there myself, or if the move
played
> seemed more or less equivalent to the move I would have played. All
other
> moves were considered *bad*, without making any qualification how bad
they
> actually were.

> Out of the 50 moves each side played, I counted 6 bad moves for Black
and > 12 for White. A pro would probably only disagree with me on a
couple of  > those.
> After these 100 moves I think White is about 30 points behind, but
that in
> itself I consider of less importance. But it seems to confirm the fact
that
> White is doing better in this game. Now if we look at what Frank's
system
> does, which is predict which moves are 'pro' moves, we could conclude
that
> his system predicts 64% of the moves correctly. If we look at Go++
however,
> we could similarly say that it scored 88%.

> Now if Frank can improve the accuracy of his system to 90%, which I
think
> would be quite a feat by itself, then I think we can say that at best
it
> would make it play on a similar level as Go++ (for the first 100 moves
at
> least).


> -----Original Message-----
> From: computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:computer-go-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Frank de
Groot
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 20:48
> To: computer-go
> Subject: [computer-go] Pattern matching - example play
>
>
> Attached & below a game that shows how a purely-pattern system
> plays against
> Go++ 5.0 Level 5 (highest):
> White totally neglects making territory.
>
>
>
> (;GM[1]FF[4]SZ[19]CA[UTF-8]
> AP[Moyo Go Studio]
> GN[Go++ 5.0[B] vs. MoyoGo[W]]
> PW[MoyoGo]
> PB[Go++ 5.0]
> KM[5.5]
> OT[No byo-yomi]
> DT[2004-11-22]
>
;B[cc];W[pp];B[pc];W[dp];B[jq];W[hq];B[mq];W[oq];B[jo];W[kp];B[kq];W[ho]
;
> B[jp];W[pe];B[qe];W[qf];B[qd];W[pf];B[nc];W[hm];B[qk];W[qi];B[qn];
> W[qo];B[pn
> ];
> W[rn];B[rm];W[ro];B[oj];W[jm];B[qj];W[pi];B[nl];W[oi];B[ck];W[nj];
> B[no];W[cm
> ];
> B[ch];W[ok];B[ol];W[pj];B[cq];W[dq];B[cp];W[co];B[bo];W[bn];B[do];
> W[cn];B[dr
> ];
> W[er];B[cr];W[fq];B[ap];W[hk];B[df];W[hc];B[fc];W[mp];B[np];W[nq];
> B[mr];W[mo
> ];
> B[mn];W[ln];B[kn];W[km];B[lm];W[ll];B[lo];W[mm];B[kc];W[ln];B[nn];
> W[he];B[ke
> ];
> W[lp];B[lm];W[ml];B[lg];W[ln];B[ko];W[nk];B[hh];W[gg];B[gh];W[eg];
> B[ei];W[hg
> ];
> B[fh];W[ih];B[ii];W[jh];B[ji];W[kh];B[if];W[jf];B[ie];W[ig];B[id];
> W[hd];B[ki
> ];
> W[lh];B[mg];W[kf];B[lf];W[ef];B[de];W[ee];B[fd];W[ed];B[gb];W[hb];
> B[el];W[em
> ];
> B[fe];W[fl];B[hf];W[dd];B[gf];W[cd];B[be];W[bd];B[ce];W[fg];B[bb];
> W[db];B[dc
> ];
> W[cb];B[bl];W[an];B[bc];W[ad];B[ec];W[ae];B[bg];W[ac];B[ds];W[es];
> B[ps];W[pr
> ];
> B[os];W[qs];B[ep];W[eq];B[br];W[qr];B[in];W[hn];B[ir];W[ns];B[im];
> W[il];B[rf
> ];
> W[rg];B[re];W[hr];B[af];W[ek];B[dk];W[ej];B[dj];W[li];B[dl];W[kg];
> B[nf];W[je
> ];
> B[jd];W[ao];B[bp];W[le];B[me];W[kd];B[kb];W[md];B[nd];W[jn];B[dm];
> W[dn];B[fm
> ];
> W[en];B[gl];W[gm];B[fn];W[fo];B[fk];W[gn];B[sg];W[rh];B[og];W[pg];
> B[mc];W[ld
> ];
> B[gj];W[fl];B[fm];W[rj];B[rk];W[sh];B[io];W[sf];B[pk];W[pd];B[qc];
> W[hl];B[sj
> ];
> W[si];B[ri];W[fn];B[dg];W[rj];B[lc];W[ke];B[ri];W[fl];B[gk];W[rj];
> B[kk];W[sk
> ])
>
>

_______________________________________________
computer-go mailing list
computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
_______________________________________________
computer-go mailing list
computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/