Re: [computer-go] Pattern matching - example play

["Frank de Groot" <frank@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message ----- 
To: <drd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "computer-go" <computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Pattern matching - example play


> From: "Don Dailey" <drd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [computer-go] Pattern matching - example play
>
>
> > However Frank,  it seems to  me that it  should be better  to directly
> > apply  actual  knowledge as  opposed  to  trying  to obtain  knowledge
> > indirectly.



Something else came to mind.
I in fact *totally* disagree with your premisse.

You call putting in programmer's knowledge "directly applying knowledge" and
learning knowledge from games "indirectly applying knowledge", while in fact
it is the other way round!

Because when a programmer put in his knowledge, he mainly got his knowledge
from many years of playing Go and observing Go games.

Meaning, the programmer is an extra link in the chain.

It's trivial to demonstrate that a programmer's learned patterns are
inferior to directly learned patterns, as I have convinced myself I have
done. My opinion on this:

- A Go program that uses ONLY the rules is an example of the application of
the application of "first level-knowledge",

- A Go program that uses the rules AND "learned" games is an example of the
application of "first level-knowledge" + "second level knowledge",

- A Go program that uses the rules AND programmers' heuristics is an example
of the application of "first level-knowledge" + "third level knowledge".

- A Go program that uses the rules AND programmers' applied Go Dogma's
("truths" from books) is an example of the application of "first
level-knowledge" + "fourth level knowledge".

Fourth level knowledge because Go dogma's come thus into being:

Rules --> Observed/played games --> Evolution of generally accepted
heuristics --> Finalization of universally recognized dogma's.

I find it risky to introduce dogma's into the system, as Go Theory (Joseki
variations etc.) is in a state of continuous development and nobody even
knows whether starting on Tengen is the best or not. Manually putting in
patetrns would be naive. Better is a system that can be re-trained with the
latest games, and it will learn the latest Joseki etc.

Dogma's are almost always sub-optimal, and I don't see why Go would be an
exception.


_______________________________________________
computer-go mailing list
computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/