RE: [computer-go] KGS Tournaments: Cheating

["R. Zhou" <shanleqi@xxxxxxxxx>]

If you have played GoWind online, you might notice
that GoWind cannot play reproducibly. And I don't have
any random move generator. Several moves may have the
same highest score to be picked up, but I don't know
why computer pick different moves at different plays. 

Ruhai


--- "Persson, Magnus" <persson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> As an author of a program that do not play
> reproducible, I must state
> that it is not necessarily easy to make such a
> program play
> reproducibly.
> 
> In order to have random move generator (which is a
> necessity in my
> program) providing the same result every time, I
> would need to set a
> fixed limit of calls to the random generator at each
> move. But then I
> lose control over time it takes to compute the move
> and would end up
> having to play moves faster than the time limits
> allow. Now it also
> happens to be the case that the playing strength of
> my program depends
> strongly on the thinking time.
> 
> Thus, forcing a program to play in a reproducible
> way will be unfair to
> it, because it would not be able to use the time
> controls in a flexible
> and efficient way. It is impossible to know in
> advance how long time it
> takes to compute the best move.
> 
> Magnus (author of viking5)
> 
> --
> Magnus Persson
> Center for Adaptive Behavior and Cognition
> Tel: +49-(30)-82406-350
> Cell phone: +49 163 6639868
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arend Bayer [mailto:arend.bayer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > 
> > On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Mark Boon wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:25:04 +0000, Nick Wedd
> <nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > 
> > > > Another proposal is that programs must play
> reproducibly.  Then,
> if
> > > > there is an accusation of cheating, the
> accused program can be
> asked
> > to
> > > > reproduce the sequence of moves.  However,
> some programs don't
> play
> > > > reproducibly, and can't be forced to.
> > > >
> > 
> > > Of course there could still be programs that
> can't reproduce play
> for
> > > other reasons than a random generator. One
> source could be bugs.
> > > Forcing moves to be reproducible may actually be
> doing a favour to
> > > those programs :) Another source for
> irreproducible moves is
> > > time-control. If a program adjusts the amount it
> reads based on real
> > > time used, you may occasionally get different
> moves when trying to
> > > reproduce the game. This is be a little harder
> to crack. You may end
> > 
> > It depends on how the program implements the time
> control, of course.
> If
> > the program just adjusts its depth setings etc.
> according to the time
> > spent on previous moves, then this shouldn't be a
> problem: it should
> do
> > so according to the "time_left" reports it gets
> via GTP from kgsgtp.
> > Just logging the GTP stream should make everything
> reproducible.
> computer-go/
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> 

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