Re: [computer-go] KGS Tournaments: Format

[Bill Shubert <wms@xxxxxxxxxx>]

H'm, not sure where that came from, must have been a misunderstanding.

I have several issues with 9x9 ranks. One is that very few people would
care about them, so it would be a fair amount of work for very little
return. Another is the slippery slope problem - other people want
separate blitz ranks, or rengo ranks, or whatever. Another is the
complexity this adds to the GUI, potentially causing trouble for users
(who wants to see "wms [3k; 5k 9x9; 2k blitz]" in the user list? And
lastly, I have put a lot of work into examining my data set to find a
statistical model for 19x19 that will properly estimate the handicap
stones needed based on past game history - I don't have enough data,
enough time, or enough interest to do the same for 9x9.

Meanwhile, the SQL issue is quite simple! A simple "alter table" to add
columns for the rank and the confidence. Perhaps I answered you before
and I rambled on, making it sound like the database was the problem, but
it isn't that, it is other things that make it look incredibly unlikely
to me that KGS will ever support 9x9 ranks.

On Tue, 2005-03-08 at 05:04, Don Dailey wrote:
> Hi Christian,
> 
> I asked Bill Shubert about 9x9 ratings when computer ratings via
> kgsGtp first came out.   He thought there would be SQL issues,
> implying that what SQL engine he uses wouldn't be able to handle
> it comfortably. 
> 
> - Don
> 
> 
> 
>    I think the "big issue" in this case ( for me at least ) is the fact
>    that not all of the programs entered in the test tournament can
>    actually play 19x19. I know my program won't be able to..and I don't
>    really plan on making it possible. But that shouldn't stop there being
>    19x19 tournaments of course.
> 
>    What I really wanted to say is that for me a handicapped 9x9
>    tournament would be interesting ( because of the relative weakness of
>    my program ;) ). The problem is of course how to set the handicaps
>    without a proper rank...which in turn is impossible to achieve without
>    playing 19x19. I know that a 9x9-rank is much to ask, but it would be
>    nice. *hint-hint* :)
> 
>    /Christian
> 
>    On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:03:55 -0800, Bill Shubert <wms@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>    > Yes, it is only a technical requirement I suppose. If there is a real
>    > need for a way to set arbitrary ranks, perhaps I will do it.
>    > 
>    > But the more I think about it, I think that I was wrong when I listed it
>    > as a "big problem." Anybody with a GTP-enabled engine who wants to enter
>    > a tournament could just leave it running on KGS for a day or two and get
>    > a rank that way, after all. Probably more of a "small issue" than a "big
>    > problem."
>    > 
>    > On Mon, 2005-03-07 at 16:35, Gunnar FarnebXck wrote:
>    > > Bill wrote:
>    > > > There is one big problem with handicap and McMahon tournaments: Every
>    > > > player needs a rank. GnuGo and Go++ both have KGS ranks, and a few
>    > > > others...but requiring solid ranks will limit the number of players who
>    > > > can possibly play in the tournament quite a bit. Maybe good to have some
>    > > > handicap/McMahon tournaments, but having some non-handicap is nice too,
>    > > > to allow more players.
>    > >
>    > > I assume KGS rank is a technical requirement. Otherwise it would be
>    > > possible to assign tournament ranks from some combination of KGS rank,
>    > > results in earlier tournaments, self ranking, and arbitrary decisions
>    > > by the tournament director.
>    > >
>    > > /Gunnar
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