RE: [computer-go] Fourth KGS tournament: results

["William M. Shubert" <wms@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Unfortunately, Peter is right. This bug has been hit before. The kgsGtp
client was supposed to treat ranked and tournament as the same, but one
part of the code does and the other doesn't, meaning that if you play
tournament and can't do "mark_stones_dead", you can have serious
problems. I fixed that, but can't remember if I uploaded a fixed kgsGtp
yet. Peter, could you email me the exact version of kgsGtp that you
have? If it isn't fixed in the latest, I will build a new release and
put it on the web site.

On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 19:12 +0000, Peter McKenzie wrote:
> 
> >From: Nick Wedd <nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: computer-go <computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: computer-go <computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: [computer-go] Fourth KGS tournament: results
> >Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:34:54 +0100
> >
> >The results of the 4th KGS Computer Go tournament are now at
> >http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/4/index.html
> >
> >Congratulations to the winners, Aya and tlsBot!
> >
> >I have not "closed" (in KGS's sense) the Open division, because there is a 
> >problem with it.  I would like to award gonzoBot a win in its final-round 
> >game against Go81 (it killed all of Go81's stones), but the system has 
> >recorded this as a win for Go81, and I don't have the power to change this 
> >result myself.  There is more about the problem in the above-cited report.  
> >I expect this particular problem won't recur, it was caused by a bug in 
> >Gonzo which will be fixed,
> 
> I will describe this problem as there is a chance that others may fall into 
> it.
> 
> Firstly, I will say that in the weeks prior to the tournament Gonzo played 
> many hundreds of test games on KGS without problem.  Gonzo was able to 
> finish all those games without intervention.  However in the tournament all 
> of Gonzo's games required manual intervention to be completed.
> 
> I believe the problem is that Gonzo did not implement the final_status_list 
> command.  I was under the impression that this command was only required for 
> rated games and that if you didn't implement it kgsGtp would interpret that 
> as being equivalent to implementing it and always returning an empty list of 
> dead stones.  While this is true for non-tournament games it doesn't seem to 
> hold true for tournament games!  I'm not sure if this is a bug in kgsGtp, or 
> if it is intended behaviour.  Note that the kgsGtp documentation says that 
> final_status_list is only required for rated games.
> 
> The solution (hopefully) is simply to implement the final_status_list 
> command, even if the implementation is as simple as always returning an 
> empty list of dead stones - which is exactly what I have done now in Gonzo.  
> Unfortunately it may be difficult to test whether this actually solves the 
> problem until the next tournament.  I wonder if I'm able to create a 
> tournament myself to test this?
> 
> Anyway, the tournament was very enjoyable.  I would encourage others who may 
> have a program that is in the early stages of development to make the effort 
> to enter.
> 
> And finally, apologies for turning up a couple of minutes late and then 
> having the nerve to be grumpy about missing out on the first round :-)  I'm 
> looking forward to the next tournament, the start time is better time for me 
> too (8am).
> 
> cheers,
> Peter
> 
> >but I still find it odd than I can overrule a game result in all but the 
> >final round.
> >
> >I am unsure whether it was right of me to enter a version of GNU Go myself. 
> >  Reasons in favour:
> >   The more entrants, the better
> >   People like to see their bots compete against GNU Go
> >   It is no extra work for me, my PC is connected anyway
> >Reasons against:
> >   The GNU Go was eight months old, a recent one would play better
> >   As organiser, I ought not to help a program like this
> >I will welcome views on this, particularly from GNU Go developers.
> >
> >Nick
> >--
> >Nick Wedd    nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >_______________________________________________
> >computer-go mailing list
> >computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
> 
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