Re: computer-go: Good Play (was FPGA)

[Matthew John Saffell <saffell@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Don Dailey wrote:

> 
> I have always believed  that people don't play chess  OR go very well.
> But we suffer  from our own point of  view.  The  strongest Go masters
> are so impressive to us that we don't  realize how "badly" they really
> play.  Of course  I am only  guessing because it's  not  easy to prove
> this.
> 
...(snip)
> 
> There are  other issues however.  I  believe the style  of play  is an
> important  factor.  If GOD  decided   to play Chess against  Kasparov,
> would he simply play  perfect Chess, or would he  add tricky moves  to
> confound Kasparov, taking further advantage of what he knows about his
> mental weaknesses?  If the opening position is a draw, then offering a
> draw  on the first   move is a  "perfect" move  in the game  theoretic
> sense, or quickly setting up  a 3 move  repetition.  It might also  be
> that  rapid exchanges  that  quickly  lead to   a draw  might even  be
> negotiated  by  Kasparov.  Even strong  players try   to make things a
> little more complicated,  especially when they want  a win and a  draw
> will not do.
> 

There is a very long (possibly unending) thread on rec.games.go about how
the pros would fare against the "Go God" and the "Go Devil".  Both deities
have complete knowledge of the game tree, but "Go God" plays the best move
available assuming that his opponent also knows the best response, while
the "Go Devil" has extra knowledge about his opponents weaknesses, and
plays the move which will cause his opponent to make the biggest mistake,
thus giving "Go Devil" the biggest win.

A battle rages about how many handicap stones a top pro would have to take
against "Go God" and estimates range from 4 stones to 17 stones and up.
According to the above definitions, "Go God" does not bother with
deliberate obfuscation since he assumes his opponent can read it out as
well as he can, so I would actually be inclined to the lower end of the
range.  But while "Go God" and "Go Devil" always play to a draw (with
correct komi), us humans will always have to take a much bigger handicap
when playing against the "Go Devil" than against "Go God".  :-) 

Matt


> So if I had a computer that was so fast it could see to the end of the
> game, I  would spend some effort on  obfuscating the play.  There must
> be some bluff  involved and some assumptions  about what makes it more
> difficult for the opponent to get the maximum results!
> 
> 
> Don
>