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Re: [computer-go] how to have a computer go tournament?

At 11:26 AM 1/21/05, you wrote:
> why did people complain? can you recall some of their reasons for being upset?
... lot of experience playing my chess program in human tournaments.
Generally, there was always some resistance to this, but it greatly
increased when chess programs starting getting really strong. Now
no one wants to play the computer.
sure.



But back when reasonably strong players had a chance, here are the reasons
usually given:

  1.  I came to play humans, not computers.
  2.  I can't get psyched up to play a computer.
  3.  Or a variation of this:  I play terrible against computers.

The last 2 things are probably not very relevant for most GO players
who can beat program easily unless they are fairly weak.
yes, #1 is probably the most common. but i suspect there might somewhat less resistance from go players.

>From conversations with others, it's easy to deduce that in many cases
the TRUE reason is not given, just an excuse that isn't really being
candid.  Here are some of the REAL reasons based on my speculation
(which you can take with a grain of salt but I believe are often the
case.)

  1.  Some players are lazy.  Tournaments are stressful and amazingly
      some players would prefer to avoid the stress of playing even
      though they have already expended money and effort getting to
      the tournament.  ...
my experience at the cotsen open leads me to think this would not be as large of a problem.


      Even when I played tournament chess which I truly loved, I
      noticed that just before the games, depending on my mood, I
      would often wish I was somewhere else until I actually got
      involved in the game.  It's a natural human reaction to avoid
      stress.
hmmm, i have not noticed that in myself. or observed it in other go players (but maybe i am no so observant when in one).


      It's pretty far fetched to complain about having to play a game
      against a human since that is why you are there, but it's pretty
      easy to raise a stink over having to play a computer and perhaps
      not having to play the game since it is percieved as being a
      unique or odd situation having a computer present.

i suspect that this will be the main issue.



  2.  I don't know about tournament GO, but in chess a full point BYE
      is given if you do not play due to an odd number of players.
      Again, if you can complain your way out of having to play a
      computer you are rewarded with a "free win."
if a player does not show up for a game, his opponet gets a win i think, so that can be an argument.


      Of course this reason is NEVER the one actually given.

There is an easy solution which kind of annoys me, but works
unbelievably well.  OFFER MONEY to anyone who can beat the computer.
interesting idea. i suspect that it would not take much money either. many of the low kyu players want to play and want to improve their rating. but they seem to mostly have a different mind set that chess players.

At one tournament years ago, the rules were that no one had to play
the computer unless they wanted to, they just had to specify
beforehand.  Almost zero people wanted to play.  The next year, we
offered $5.00 for a draw and $10.00 for a win.  This tiny amount of
money was enough to induce almost EVERYONE to put their name on the
list to play.  So the amount you offer almost doesn't matter, as long
as you offer something.
really? i had no idea that the amount would be so low. wow! i am sure that if we did it, we coud offer more than that as it would not happen that often. that would give people more chance to play. my feeling is that most of the players i know would rather play than take the automatic win, especially of there was say $50 in it for them if they one.


Go players may be a different breed.

i think so


  I got real sick of chess due to
the Las Vegas atmosphere.  It was all about winning and money.  Unless
you were a very strong player, there was little chance of recovering
your expenses but during the whole tournament people were counting
their chickens and calculating how much money they might win if things
went just so.
this tournanent only has a $20 entry fee. which is fully refundable if you play all 5 of your games. so it's basically free and most of the people are from the local area, so there is not much expense involved. we do get some people from out of state if we get enough advance notice out in time.

tournaments without all of this, since this is what motivated most
players to come to the tournaments.

there is basically not that much money in these tournaments.


...
Another thing that can be done is to have tournaments designed
specifically for computer/human play like they used to do in computer
chess.  Or, have tournaments where you are required to play a computer
if you happened to get paired against one, no exceptions.
we may try to do that. i can get some feedback on the go in la mailing list.

you've made some very good points that i was not aware of.

thanks

---
ray tayek <http://tayek.com/>, co-chair <http://www.ocjug.org/>, actively seeking telecommuting work.

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