Re: [computer-go] future KGS Computer Go Tournaments - two sections?

[Don Dailey <drd@xxxxxxx>]

Hi again,

Excellent idea I think.  One should be completely open and the other
open only to original authors.  Botnoid would gladly compete in both.

I have a lot of respect to the "meta-bot" programs like Sluggo, but I
am torn by the consideration of fairness.  For instance, if it were
allowed for me to have several botnoid deriviatives in a competition,
then I could greatly increase my chances of winning or placing high.

Or, if I get tired of losing I could simply place a wrapper around
gnugo, and call it my new program.  I could make some arbitrary and
simple modification if I wanted to go to the trouble of seeming fair.

With a program like Sluggo, a great deal of effort went into it and I
respect that.  And that's why I'm torn.  The other side of the coin is
that almost all of the effort had little to do with actual GO playing
knowledge and heuristics.  Although they worked hard, they never
worked for that.  I don't want to compete with n improved copies of
GnuGo unless I am allowed to put in several Botnoids (each with
experimental modifications.)

I am afraid that even this division should be completely open,
otherwise I will enter multiple Botnoids and you will probably very
shortly see gnu clones that are not actual derivatives, they will be
the real thing probably represented in some cases by non-programmers
who are smart enough to get the bot working.

- Don



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   Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 14:11:10 +0100
   From: Nick Wedd <nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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   I would like to hear your views on something which was proposed in 
   discussion during yesterday's KGS Computer Go Tournament.

   The proposal is to run future such events as two "divisions", with 
   admission to the "upper" division being more tightly controlled.

   On one hand, I want to take reasonable steps to deter cheating.  I also 
   want to avoid clones of GNU Go, and programs which use GNU Go code to 
   select their moves.  Both require that I should know something about the 
   bot, and preferably also about its creator.  Specifically, if a bot _is_ 
   found to be cheating, I would like to be able to name and shame the 
   person responsible, and I can only do this if I know his real name.

   On the other hand, I would like the tournaments to be fun for as many 
   people as possible.  I would therefore like to be able to admit 
   metamachines that use GNUGo code, modified GNUGo clones, and anonymous 
   entries.

   By having two divisions, I could achieve both.  The upper division would 
   be restricted to what I was convinced was original code from known 
   individuals.  The lower division would be open to all, or almost all.  I 
   believe that there is not technical obstacle to this;  as far as KGS is 
   concerned there would be two distinct but simultaneous tournaments.

   What do people think?

   Nick
   -- 
   Nick Wedd    nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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