Re: [computer-go] future KGS Computer Go Tournaments - two sections?

[Don Dailey <drd@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Vlad!

As many of stated before, there is a matter of judgement involved.
Let's consider briefly perhaps of the toughest decisions in this
regard to authorship.

Suppose one of the primary contributors to the GNU Go project decides
that he wants to split away and build his own Go program?

What do we do?  We don't do anything,  that's why we have Nick.  Nick
decides because it's Nicks tournament.   Since Nick is organizer, Nick
would have to satisfy himself and the entrants (who implicity cast their
vote by their participation and satisfaction.) 

Since I can't speak for Nick, I'll simply speculate as to how I might
handle this case were I directing a tournament.  Again, I think this
probably represents one of the least clear cases.

There is clearly gray here, but if the GNU Go author was splitting
away from the GNU Go project and I believed he was starting from
scratch with his own original work, I would find it hard to shut him
out.  I would probably still be bothered that his name is still
"stuck" to the GNU Go project, but you can't be overly rigid and a
sense of reasonableness has to prevail.  A different organizer may
make a different decision.

But if the author was making active contributions to GNU Go and still
submitting his own entry, then it's really hard to make the claim that
he really only has 1 entry in the tournament.

If he were allowed both entrants and GNU Go wins the tournament,
people will be congratulating him on his victory and he will get the
satisfaction that comes from his hard work on GNU Go and it's victory,
HIS VICTORY.  If his "other" entry wins, he will get the satisfaction
that comes from seeing his name in lights for this win.  Simply put,
he gets 2 chances to win, everyone else gets 1 chance to win.

No matter what, there will always be questions of authorship,
cloneship and such that have to be judged and that's why it has to be
the organizers rules and judgement.

- Don



   From: "Vlad Dumitrescu" <vlad_dumitrescu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
   Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:27:04 +0200

   From: "Don Dailey" <drd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
   > This whole business of clones and similar programs is REALLY
   > about AUTHORSHIP.  [...]
   > For instance, I have more than one Go program, and they use different
   > algorithms.  They don't just use different algorithms, they didn't
   > even start life as the same piece of code.  [...]
   > But why can't I enter several of these programs in competition?  The
   > similarity between any 2 of these is FAR less than the similarity
   > between SlugGo and GnuGo.

   > The answer is authorship.  As David and others have pointed out, it's
   > grossly unfair to let me or anyone else have several programs
   > represented in a single tournamnt.

   I am sorry if by asking this means I'm one of those that don't think
   clearly. Confused I am, that I agree :-)

   First, I don't recall anyone else saying anything about authorship as the
   discriminant feature. I think your two different programs should always be
   allowed to enter the same competition (of course, there is the issue of
   trusting you when you say they are different, but that is a separate issue)

   Going with this to the extreme, it means any of your programs can't compete
   together with GnuGo, because you're an author to all of them!? What if any
   other GnuGo developers decides to start from scratch with a new program,
   completely different than GnuGo -- should these two programs never be able
   to meet in a tournament?

   For me this is like saying that only one of Kato Masao, Otake Hideo,
   Takemiya Masaki and Cho Chikun (to name just a few) should have been allowed
   to enter a tournament, because they have all been studying at Kitani
   Minoru's school.

   regards,
   Vlad

   P.S. To further confuse the matter, what about a go program that learns,
   without any tactical or strategic modules, just raw learning from games
   played and replayed. I know it's not very practical now, but maybe MoyoGo
   will get playing abilities soon.

   Should two such programs developed separately by two different teams be
   allowed in the same tournament?
   _______________________________________________
   computer-go mailing list
   computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
   http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/

_______________________________________________
computer-go mailing list
computer-go@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/