Re: [computer-go] future KGS Computer Go Tournaments - two sections?

[Don Dailey <drd@xxxxxxx>]

> > And yes, I would be very pleased to be part of your verification
> > process, but botnoid is probably too weak for you to mess with.  In my
> > opinion you need to play a long public match against GNU Go, MFOG or
> > some other strong program on KGS or one of the other servers.
> 
> We do this in our own lab. I am wondering what the additional benefit
> is for doing it on KGS. 

I wasn't sure about WHY you built this thing, I assumed that you were
doing it as a scientist.  Isn't there supposed to be some mechanism
for letting others experimentally verify your results?  This is an
extremely positive and easy way to deal with this.

But even if you are not a research scientist there is enormous
positive value to actually doing the experiment publicly, versus
saying you did an experiement in private and "here is what we got."


> ...                 Games against GNU Go are particularly unfair.
> SlugGo's lookahead scheme is too good at predicting what GNU Go
> will do (we call it evil twin syndrome) and thus we crush GNU Go far
> out of proportion to our actual difference in strength. For other
> opponents the lookahead is not as effective because of a low hit rate
> on their moves.

Maybe I remember this wrong,  but didn't we determined many months ago
that we expected this effect, but it really didn't show up much?  

Please don't think I'm questioning your results in any way, but I just
know I would feel better if I saw it reproduced independently or done
publicly in clear view.  In fact I WANT to see this done and I want to
be able to point to SlugGo when I'm in other discussions about global
search and such.  I need a real example so that I can prove
empirically what I already know to be true, that global search is
feasible in Go.  I won't point to SlugGo (yet) because it's sloppy to
point to unconfirmed results to make a point, it's asking to be
humiliated or embarassed.  It's bad form.  I would have to stick my
neck out (at least a little) and completely trust my reputation to
you.  I won't do that.   

You probably think tournaments are good enough, but aside from the
issue of fairness, which we are discussing, winning a prize in a
tournament just isn't very impressive for a GNU Go clone.  No point
has been made.  And that's part of the trouble with being a GNU Go
derivative.  You really need to prove you are clearly better than a
GNU Go.  Is that unreasonable?

- Don




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